Thoughts on Tools 20121101

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    DesktopboB, 9th Nov 2012 5:48 pm

    Chami,
    Downloaded the current Tools version yesterday.
    On XP, it is a bear and a half to get the program to update.
    Tried the first option: install and restart...no go.
    Tried the second: install and start later...this option worked on the Treehouse build, but not on the current version.
    Finally got the auto-update to work by opening the package icon at the top left and hitting "Install Updates."...this closed the program and installed the update.
    On Windows 7, there were no problems at all.

    Find that on the XP machine, I can't get the font to change to anything but Deja Vu Sans, which is a little too bulky for my taste. Even with Source Code Pro selected, it just stays with the default we've had for years (not even sure what font it is?).
    I've even tried downloading the program from User Assistant and installing again, but makes no difference.

    On first boot after changing the user interface theme, Recent Documents opened as a line on the left of the editor. A re-boot solved the problem, but just thought you should know.

    After quite a lot of testing, I've finally figured out the bug in the "Word Wrap" option of the Editor. The option can be changed for a single document, but that's it. Tools is not remembering the change for some reason and once you shut down and reboot, the Word Wrap is back to wrapping.

    Something else I've been meaning to post about is the icons in the upper left for New, Open and Save. I don't have a problem with the color of them, which is kind of dark when using a dark theme, but a couple of builds ago, they moved closer together and I seem to have a bit of a problem hitting the correct icon. Could they be spaced a bit further apart vertically?

    Other than that, things are coming along well in your development of Tools and, as always, your work is appreciated (even if I don't sound like it after the long day I've had....LOL!).

    Have a good weekend!

    boB

    • HTML-Kit Support, 9th Nov 2012 6:55 pm

      Hi boB,

      On 11/9/2012 5:48 PM, DesktopboB wrote:

      Chami,
      Downloaded the current Tools version yesterday.
      On XP, it is a bear and a half to get the program to update.
      Tried the first option: install and restart...no go.
      Tried the second: install and start later...this option worked on the
      Treehouse build, but not on the current version.
      Finally got the auto-update to work by opening the package icon at
      the top left and hitting "Install Updates."...this closed the program
      and installed the update.
      On Windows 7, there were no problems at all.

      Yes, auto updating can be tricky on some XP systems. At least in my
      testing, it works fine on XP with "original equipment" but as you add
      background programs like malware scanners auto-updating can sometimes
      fail or get blocked. So in this case, it might be easier to run the setup.

      Auto updating works pretty seamlessly on Vista/7/8. XP is lacking some
      of the newer APIs but I'll look into improving this experience on XP.

      Find that on the XP machine, I can't get the font to change to
      anything but Deja Vu Sans, which is a little too bulky for my taste.
      Even with Source Code Pro selected, it just stays with the default we've
      had for years (not even sure what font it is?).
      I've even tried downloading the program from User Assistant and
      installing again, but makes no difference.

      On XP, Tools uses Lucida Console font. Consolas doesn't come with XP (it
      was added in Vista) but you can download it from
      http://www.microsoft.com Try searching Consolas Font Pack.

      Source Code Pro isn't supported in XP unfortunately. I'll document this
      in the ChangeLog. Thank you for bringing this up.

      On first boot after changing the user interface theme, Recent
      Documents opened as a line on the left of the editor. A re-boot
      solved the problem, but just thought you should know.

      Was it the drop-down menu on the Actions Bar (blue icon), or the File menu?

      After quite a lot of testing, I've finally figured out the bug in
      the "Word Wrap" option of the Editor. The option can be changed for a
      single document, but that's it. Tools is not remembering the change
      for some reason and once you shut down and reboot, the Word Wrap is
      back to wrapping.

      Word wrap and similar options on "View > Editor" menu (and Actions Bar
      equivalent) are for the current editor in the current session. Again,
      I'll make this clear in Status Bar hint.

      Word wrap and other settings that you set in "Edit > Preferences" are
      for all documents and it's remembered between sessions.

      Something else I've been meaning to post about is the icons in the
      upper left for New, Open and Save. I don't have a problem with the
      color of them, which is kind of dark when using a dark theme, but a
      couple of builds ago, they moved closer together and I seem to have a
      bit of a problem hitting the correct icon. Could they be spaced a bit
      further apart vertically?

      Sounds good, that's no problem.

      Other than that, things are coming along well in your development of
      Tools and, as always, your work is appreciated (even if I don't sound
      like it after the long day I've had....LOL!).

      Have a good weekend!

      boB

      You too, boB. I sure appreciate your feedback :) and you've always been
      kind.

      Chami

      • Dom64, 12th Nov 2012 2:47 pm

        Hi,

        I have downloaded the current HTMLkit Tools today... And discovered that the user interface icons and colours had changed... I quite liked the old ones and feel a bit lost now...
        So, I tried to find out how to get back to the old one, and I found some interesting information on page
        http://www.html-kit.com/docs/tools/menu/kit/kitthemesub/
        except that the submenus indicated on that page do not exist in the current version of HTMLkit Tools...

        Is there a way of downloading the old "skin" for HTML kit Tools somehow?

        Thanks in advance.

        Cheers,
        Dominique

        • Dom64, 12th Nov 2012 3:10 pm

          Hi Chami,

          Sorry for putting my thoughts in two posts instead of one; I just suddenly thought that my previous post may have lacked clarity. It's not the colour choices for the new skin which bother me (especially since they can be changes) but more icons and such...
          The "Flat, Windows XP / System Theme, Windows Vista / Windows 7" options of the
          "Kit > User Interface Theme " menu have disappeared.

          I know it is stupid and pointlessbut it does bother me as I find it harder to visually separate the different parts of the Tools "environment".
          Alternatively, is there a documentation of the variables in the User Interface Theme Manager?

          Sorry to bother you with such trivia, but the visual chage has really unsettled me a little bit...

          Cheers,
          Dom

          • HTML-Kit Support, 12th Nov 2012 3:35 pm

            On 11/12/2012 3:10 PM, Dom64 wrote:

            Hi Chami,

            Sorry for putting my thoughts in two posts instead of one; I just
            suddenly thought that my previous post may have lacked clarity. It's
            not the colour choices for the new skin which bother me (especially
            since they can be changes) but more icons and such...
            The "Flat, Windows XP / System Theme, Windows Vista / Windows 7" options of the
            "Kit > User Interface Theme " menu have disappeared.

            I know it is stupid and pointlessbut it does bother me as I find it
            harder to visually separate the different parts of the Tools "environment".
            Alternatively, is there a documentation of the variables in the User
            Interface Theme Manager?

            Sorry to bother you with such trivia, but the visual chage has
            really unsettled me a little bit...

            Cheers,
            Dom

            Hi Dominique,

            I'm afraid that page is outdated (from 2009) and those aren't available
            as skins/styles anymore. They never really were skins in the traditional
            sense (external files for customizing colors and images).

            I know that we all have our own preferences when it comes to colors and
            other visuals. On the other hand, I have to update the UI... I can't
            keep it static. But I do post test builds of these changes before
            finalizing them on the TreeHouse forum. If I don't get a lot of feedback
            I'm sorry I have to go ahead with the changes.

            http://www.html-kit.com/forums/treehouse/treehouse-build-20120727-check-out-the-new-look-244/

            I can send you the release before the UI was updated if you don't have
            it, but I'm very sorry it's too late to revert the UI. If you'd like to
            email me screenshots with drawings that might make the current visuals
            look better for you I'll be glad to consider it but I can't make any
            promises.

            Chami

      • DesktopboB, 13th Nov 2012 4:13 pm

        Chami,
        I tried to post this earlier today, but there seems to have been a disturbance in the Internet and it doesn't seem to have made it to the forum.
        If this turns out to be a double post, I apologize.

        Was it the drop-down menu on the Actions Bar (blue icon), or the File menu?
        This was from the File Menu. Since you are interested in how people use Tools, I will say that I rarely use the Start Tab, except to fiddle with the Snippets. I think I'm pretty much chained to the File, Edit and other drop down menus, since I started computing back when there wasn't anything like tabs. As an example, I didn't realize there was a blue icon in the Start tab that could open Recent Files...guess I should spend some time banging around on the icons to see what they all do.
        Another usage item is that I generally write articles in Tools as plain text at first. Next, I cut and paste the article portions together (sometimes I start with just rough research notes), add a bit of formatting here and there so I won't forget it later and the last step in the full formatting as HTML (not that this has any bearing on anything, but to give you an insight into how I use Tools).

        Word wrap and other settings that you set in "Edit > Preferences" are
        for all documents and it's remembered between sessions.

        Edit>Preferences is where I've been changing the word wrap option all along and I've never done it from the View area. As I mentioned in the previous message, this "global" command is not being remembered between sessions. I can change it for a single document using Edit > Preferences, but once I close down and re-open Tools, the change is not remembered.

        Lastly, I have made a number of snippets that I think supplement the functionality of Tools...do you have any use for them or can I put them somewhere where others can try them out??

        Thanks,
        boB

        • HTML-Kit Support, 13th Nov 2012 4:49 pm

          On 11/13/2012 4:13 PM, DesktopboB wrote:

          Chami,
          I tried to post this earlier today, but there seems to have been a
          disturbance in the Internet and it doesn't seem to have made it to the
          forum.
          If this turns out to be a double post, I apologize.

          This is the only copy I see so no worries. And the problem was on this
          end... forums were down this morning.

          Was it the drop-down menu on the Actions Bar (blue icon), or the
          File menu?

          This was from the File Menu. Since you are interested in how people
          use Tools, I will say that I rarely use the Start Tab, except to
          fiddle with the Snippets. I think I'm pretty much chained to the
          File, Edit and other drop down menus, since I started computing back
          when there wasn't anything like tabs. As an example, I didn't
          realize there was a blue icon in the Start tab that could open
          Recent Files...guess I should spend some time banging around on the
          icons to see what they all do.

          I mostly use keyboard shortcuts and menus myself. You can essentially
          use HTML-Kit Tools with the Actions Bar turned off. I keep it visible
          though because some of the related commands are closely grouped together
          so sometimes it's easier to find than going through File/Edit/View
          separation.

          Another usage item is that I generally write articles in Tools as
          plain text at first. Next, I cut and paste the article portions
          together (sometimes I start with just rough research notes), add a
          bit of formatting here and there so I won't forget it later and the
          last step in the full formatting as HTML (not that this has any
          bearing on anything, but to give you an insight into how I use
          Tools).

          Thank you for this. I'd love to get more feedback like this about how
          HTML-Kit is being used. Really helps with planning out features and
          streamlining current functionality.

          If you haven't yet, you might try entering preliminary text into a "File

          New > HTML from plain text" document. This way you'll get basic HTML
          formatting and previewing for free and instantaneously (see "Preview as
          HTML" and "Open as HTML" links at the bottom).

          Word wrap and other settings that you set in "Edit > Preferences"
          are for all documents and it's remembered between sessions.

          Edit>Preferences is where I've been changing the word wrap option
          all along and I've never done it from the View area. As I mentioned
          in the previous message, this "global" command is not being
          remembered between sessions. I can change it for a single document
          using Edit > Preferences, but once I close down and re-open Tools,
          the change is not remembered.

          It should remember your word wrap setting in preferences. I just double
          checked on my machine. Is it not working for you on either machine?

          Lastly, I have made a number of snippets that I think supplement the
          functionality of Tools...do you have any use for them or can I put
          them somewhere where others can try them out??

          Thanks,
          boB

          If you don't mind emailing a couple of these snippets I can see if
          there's a good way to post these on the plugins page.

          Thanks boB.

          Chami

          • DesktopboB, 16th Nov 2012 10:12 am

            Chami,
            Just confirmed it on the other computer, so, yes, it has the same behavior in both XP and Windows 7.

            I'll have to wait on the snippets emailing until I free up some time...maybe this afternoon, but more realistically, next week or after Thanksgiving.

            Thanks
            boB

            • HTML-Kit Support, 16th Nov 2012 12:51 pm

              On 11/16/2012 10:12 AM, DesktopboB wrote:

              Chami, Just confirmed it on the other computer, so, yes, it has the
              same behavior in both XP and Windows 7.

              If you could post the exact steps you're taking I can retry reproducing
              it. It seems to be working fine for me.

              I'll have to wait on the snippets emailing until I free up some
              time...maybe this afternoon, but more realistically, next week or
              after Thanksgiving.

              Thanks boB

              No problem.

              Chami

              • chspnll, 16th Nov 2012 8:49 pm

                I don't like the loss of control+enter - I don't like having to select.

                What's next?

                I want Control+Enter back. So how do I do that?

                • HTML-Kit Support, 16th Nov 2012 9:34 pm

                  On 11/16/2012 8:49 PM, chspnll wrote:

                  I don't like the loss of control+enter - I don't like having to select.

                  What's next?

                  I want Control+Enter back. So how do I do that?

                  Hi,

                  I'll make it possible to redefine Ctrl+Enter to directly insert BR tag
                  in the next general release.

                  Note that changes like this are posted on this forum before they go on
                  to the general release:

                  http://www.html-kit.com/forums/html-kit-tools/re-purposing-ctrl-enter-325/

                  Chami

              • DesktopboB, 17th Nov 2012 11:12 am

                Chami,
                Okay, here we go...

                Simplest test is to take a document that is already completed.
                I rename the document using "save as".
                Once the saving stuff is done, the document blocks of code (paragraphs, divs, etc) immediately display the indent on the right.
                I then go to Edit>Preferences> and can either go to the Editor icon, or "Recent Changes" (makes no difference.
                "Indent Wrapped Lines at Column" shows that I have a blue circular arrow at the end of the line with the number 4 next to it.
                I hit "Don't Indent" then "Save"
                The document immediately drops the indenting and the blocks of code move back to flush left.
                On checking the Preferences, I find that the blue circular arrow and 4 are still displayed and that "Don't Indent" is no longer highlighted and underlined.

                At this point, if I start a new document, or rename another during the same session, the indent shows up again and has to be removed using the steps outlined above.
                The same behavior happens if I exit the program and restart.
                The same behavior also occurs with either HTML or plain text documents.

                What I've tried:
                Changing the preferences without an open document in the editing window--same result.

                One oddity I've observed is that in Edit>Preferences>Recent Changes I have a number of the round icons that are on the left side of the window with no text next to them. One of these is under the "Indent" section.

                One thing I can't remember (and it may have a bearing on the matter at hand) is whether my Windows 7 Tools has the backed-up data from the XP machine or not. The XP machine has had numerous Tools builds written over the top of the earliest version. When I set up Windows 7 in its VBox, I don't recall if I saved the Tools settings from the previous VBox I had in my den (which was XP), or whether I copied the Tools settings over from the XP machine that my wife and I both use (does this make any sense at all...LOL!).
                Not sure if this last bit has any bearing on the proceedings, but just thought I'd add it.

                Can't think of anything else that might assist.

                Hope this gives you an idea.

                I can send a screen grab of the blank icons if that would help.
                Have a good weekend.

                boB

                • DesktopboB, 17th Dec 2012 11:04 am

                  Chami,
                  I'm just giving this a bump so it doesn't get lost.
                  Did you ever find out anything about the issues I described and was there any type of resolution??

                  Thanks!
                  boB

                  • HTML-Kit Support, 17th Dec 2012 4:04 pm

                    On 12/17/2012 11:04 AM, DesktopboB wrote:

                    Chami,
                    I'm just giving this a bump so it doesn't get lost.
                    Did you ever find out anything about the issues I described and was
                    there any type of resolution??

                    Thanks!
                    boB

                    Hi boB,

                    I'm afraid I haven't been able to reproduce this or come up with a
                    reason why you might be seeing this. I was trying to see if there had
                    been similar reports but I wasn't able to find previous reports or any
                    feedback on this thread.

                    If you're able to reproduce this in another installation and if you
                    don't mind sending config.hsf from it, I can try applying that directly
                    to my test installation here. I want to help... just need some way to
                    reproduce.

                    Chami